Gnosis is the intimate knowledge of who we are and who God is; it is the intimate knowledge of God.
Even with the intimate knowledge of God, such knowledge, for me, isn’t absolute. This leaves me with questions that one might say plague me. My primary key to working with these questions is, “As above, so below.” “Coming to be as you pass away,” is more of a way of being (and commandment) for me, but in this way of being is a hint as well. So, I decided to start off with a statement in which I gnew was true and then move out from there using my sort of Hermetic inquiry.
The first question that insists on being answered for me is, is God All or Other or both? Can God not be one of those three (or two if we conclude that God cannot be “both;” which would raise a whole slew of other questions.)
God as Omni…there seem to me to be several types of non-dualistic beliefs. There are non-dualistic Hindu beliefs, New Age beliefs, Contemporary Gnostic beliefs and the whole Holography thing where ever that belongs, and others as well…i.e. some would suggest emanation theories are God as All. In fact it is that sort of logic I hear most in lay circles, “if God created us, or we are emanations of God, then there must be part of God in us.” Yet such lay Christians who reason such would be surprised, despite the suggestion of such by some mystics, is antithetical to Christian orthodoxy. This all becomes very muddied and confusing for minds as brilliant as even mine…LOL. Yet, there is a somewhat panentheistic saying by Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas that could be used for the Omni defense which says, “I am the Light. I am the All. The All blossoms forth from me and the All blossoms up to me. Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift a stone and I am there.” Of course, this may be a better defense for God is both All and Other.
Another part of this non-dualistic position would have to do with Gods ability to create or emanate, “ex-nihilo.” Can God create or emanate out of nothing? Again, how many lay Christians would be appalled at such a thought, yet that is the orthodox protestant and catholic pedestrian belief. I suspect it has less to do with God being omnipotent and more about being separate from God. I believe I am quite accurate in this conflicted reasoning of the Christian masses. I don’t blame them, they have not the leisure that I do to waste on such thoughts, or more accurately, I hope, such thoughts do not plague them as they do me. Never the less, what to do with separation anxiety?
God as Other, Orthodoxy, being separate from God, and that, deep down, being prolly one of Believers truest fears. This fear is, one could argue, the reason for institutional religion, the masses huddled together in fear and why Gnosticism and other forms of nonconforming religious beliefs were persecuted. But God as Other is a God of Love. There could be no God of Love if God wasn’t Other. And if God isn’t Other, if All is God, then God would be God of Narcissism. Without “other” there is no “beloved.” Even contemplating the key, “As Above, so Below,” where above and below are separate but reflections of each other is somewhat narcissistic as well, no? In the end tho, for me, this is the most romantic concept of God, especially when one considers marriage and the two becoming one concepts etc. I can go on and on, but I again would end up writing a tome, or even an unending lecture.
Then there is the oxymoronic idea of God being Other AND Both! OK, OK…Panentheism. Panentheism is really the only definition I can think that saves the day. God in All, All in God, God transcendent of All; simultaneously. Do I dare say the plainest deduction of this belief…God as Narcissist, God as Lover, and God as Abandoner. Yup, that sure saves the day…LOL.
More insane and terrifying Hermetic Gnostic Logic coming your way soon. Those darn crazy Gnostics, why couldn’t they have just stayed buried?!
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Full Version: GOD AS ALL, OTHER OR BOTH?
QUOTE (billyjef @ Nov 17 2009, 10:48 PM) 
Gnosis is the intimate knowledge of who we are and who God is; it is the intimate knowledge of God.
Even with the intimate knowledge of God, such knowledge, for me, isn’t absolute. This leaves me with questions that one might say plague me. My primary key to working with these questions is, “As above, so below.” “Coming to be as you pass away,” is more of a way of being (and commandment) for me, but in this way of being is a hint as well. So, I decided to start off with a statement in which I gnew was true and then move out from there using my sort of Hermetic inquiry.
The first question that insists on being answered for me is, is God All or Other or both? Can God not be one of those three (or two if we conclude that God cannot be “both;” which would raise a whole slew of other questions.)
God as Omni…there seem to me to be several types of non-dualistic beliefs. There are non-dualistic Hindu beliefs, New Age beliefs, Contemporary Gnostic beliefs and the whole Holography thing where ever that belongs, and others as well…i.e. some would suggest emanation theories are God as All. In fact it is that sort of logic I hear most in lay circles, “if God created us, or we are emanations of God, then there must be part of God in us.” Yet such lay Christians who reason such would be surprised, despite the suggestion of such by some mystics, is antithetical to Christian orthodoxy. This all becomes very muddied and confusing for minds as brilliant as even mine…LOL. Yet, there is a somewhat panentheistic saying by Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas that could be used for the Omni defense which says, “I am the Light. I am the All. The All blossoms forth from me and the All blossoms up to me. Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift a stone and I am there.” Of course, this may be a better defense for God is both All and Other.
Another part of this non-dualistic position would have to do with Gods ability to create or emanate, “ex-nihilo.” Can God create or emanate out of nothing? Again, how many lay Christians would be appalled at such a thought, yet that is the orthodox protestant and catholic pedestrian belief. I suspect it has less to do with God being omnipotent and more about being separate from God. I believe I am quite accurate in this conflicted reasoning of the Christian masses. I don’t blame them, they have not the leisure that I do to waste on such thoughts, or more accurately, I hope, such thoughts do not plague them as they do me. Never the less, what to do with separation anxiety?
God as Other, Orthodoxy, being separate from God, and that, deep down, being prolly one of Believers truest fears. This fear is, one could argue, the reason for institutional religion, the masses huddled together in fear and why Gnosticism and other forms of nonconforming religious beliefs were persecuted. But God as Other is a God of Love. There could be no God of Love if God wasn’t Other. And if God isn’t Other, if All is God, then God would be God of Narcissism. Without “other” there is no “beloved.” Even contemplating the key, “As Above, so Below,” where above and below are separate but reflections of each other is somewhat narcissistic as well, no? In the end tho, for me, this is the most romantic concept of God, especially when one considers marriage and the two becoming one concepts etc. I can go on and on, but I again would end up writing a tome, or even an unending lecture.
Then there is the oxymoronic idea of God being Other AND Both! OK, OK…Panentheism. Panentheism is really the only definition I can think that saves the day. God in All, All in God, God transcendent of All; simultaneously. Do I dare say the plainest deduction of this belief…God as Narcissist, God as Lover, and God as Abandoner. Yup, that sure saves the day…LOL.
More insane and terrifying Hermetic Gnostic Logic coming your way soon. Those darn crazy Gnostics, why couldn’t they have just stayed buried?!
Click to view attachment
Even with the intimate knowledge of God, such knowledge, for me, isn’t absolute. This leaves me with questions that one might say plague me. My primary key to working with these questions is, “As above, so below.” “Coming to be as you pass away,” is more of a way of being (and commandment) for me, but in this way of being is a hint as well. So, I decided to start off with a statement in which I gnew was true and then move out from there using my sort of Hermetic inquiry.
The first question that insists on being answered for me is, is God All or Other or both? Can God not be one of those three (or two if we conclude that God cannot be “both;” which would raise a whole slew of other questions.)
God as Omni…there seem to me to be several types of non-dualistic beliefs. There are non-dualistic Hindu beliefs, New Age beliefs, Contemporary Gnostic beliefs and the whole Holography thing where ever that belongs, and others as well…i.e. some would suggest emanation theories are God as All. In fact it is that sort of logic I hear most in lay circles, “if God created us, or we are emanations of God, then there must be part of God in us.” Yet such lay Christians who reason such would be surprised, despite the suggestion of such by some mystics, is antithetical to Christian orthodoxy. This all becomes very muddied and confusing for minds as brilliant as even mine…LOL. Yet, there is a somewhat panentheistic saying by Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas that could be used for the Omni defense which says, “I am the Light. I am the All. The All blossoms forth from me and the All blossoms up to me. Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift a stone and I am there.” Of course, this may be a better defense for God is both All and Other.
Another part of this non-dualistic position would have to do with Gods ability to create or emanate, “ex-nihilo.” Can God create or emanate out of nothing? Again, how many lay Christians would be appalled at such a thought, yet that is the orthodox protestant and catholic pedestrian belief. I suspect it has less to do with God being omnipotent and more about being separate from God. I believe I am quite accurate in this conflicted reasoning of the Christian masses. I don’t blame them, they have not the leisure that I do to waste on such thoughts, or more accurately, I hope, such thoughts do not plague them as they do me. Never the less, what to do with separation anxiety?
God as Other, Orthodoxy, being separate from God, and that, deep down, being prolly one of Believers truest fears. This fear is, one could argue, the reason for institutional religion, the masses huddled together in fear and why Gnosticism and other forms of nonconforming religious beliefs were persecuted. But God as Other is a God of Love. There could be no God of Love if God wasn’t Other. And if God isn’t Other, if All is God, then God would be God of Narcissism. Without “other” there is no “beloved.” Even contemplating the key, “As Above, so Below,” where above and below are separate but reflections of each other is somewhat narcissistic as well, no? In the end tho, for me, this is the most romantic concept of God, especially when one considers marriage and the two becoming one concepts etc. I can go on and on, but I again would end up writing a tome, or even an unending lecture.
Then there is the oxymoronic idea of God being Other AND Both! OK, OK…Panentheism. Panentheism is really the only definition I can think that saves the day. God in All, All in God, God transcendent of All; simultaneously. Do I dare say the plainest deduction of this belief…God as Narcissist, God as Lover, and God as Abandoner. Yup, that sure saves the day…LOL.
More insane and terrifying Hermetic Gnostic Logic coming your way soon. Those darn crazy Gnostics, why couldn’t they have just stayed buried?!
Click to view attachment
Dear BillyJef,
Questions are good as they compel one to seek truth. Though I know it can be trying at times when your focus is dominated and seemingly controlled by an unmovable need to know, trust that your efforts will lead to an unshakable foundation. Once truth is discovered, it is impossible to keep buried.
I can tell you true, that I am no longer “plagued” by such thoughts, as certain truths about God had been revealed to me. I have accepted these truths and find peace and much comfort in them. I don’t pretend to know what it will take before your questions will find rest, but I can tell you that I believe you are on the right track. Your spirit is strong and you are obviously blessed with a driving need for connection with God. I have no doubt you will find your answers. Do not condemn your probative nature as it is a very valuable gift you have been given. It is not a waste, nor have all been given the ability of this blessing. Treasure it for the gift that it is.
One point that you have touched on, and has been confused several times in this forum. The thought that being Christian is the same as being a follower of Christian religion. Not only is this untrue, in my opinion the two terms have proven themselves in opposition of each other. One cannot obey two masters. Christianity is a blanket term used to include all MAN made religions that are derived from the teachings of the bible. This is why I call myself a Christian, as it is the words of Jesus Christ that I obey to the best of my ability. Man made religions, though based on the teachings of the bible, also include their own dogma, whereby leaving their followers to obey two masters. That of Jesus Christ as well as religion. I have no such conflict, as I trust no other teachings than that of Jesus Christ. It is the origin and purity of the name Christian that I call myself such, and not because I belong to a man made religion.
I love to hear more of your thoughts. Please continue to share your talents!
God’s blessings,
Rev. Campbell.
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