Some of you have questioned why i keep posting these items. The reason why is because this is a matter of life and death. The reason why is that a moderator on this forum sympathizes with those who shed Jewish blood and that person needs to understand the difference between aggression, such as these attempted murders, and legitimate self-defense.





Two Wounded in Terror Attack; Leaders Blame Obama
Av 22, 5769, 12 August 09 09:45by Maayana Miskin

[quote name='Gary Konecky' date='Aug 12 2009, 09:39 PM' post='21590']
"Some of you have questioned why i keep posting these items. The reason why is because this is a matter of life and death. The reason why is that a moderator on this forum sympathizes with those who shed Jewish blood and that person needs to understand the difference between aggression, such as these attempted murders, and legitimate self-defense.
"


I would suggest you re-read any responsive posts made by me as you have made a libelous statement, to whit; "a moderator on this forum sympathizes with those who shed Jewish blood". This is a defamatory, slanderous statement that will be reported to the administrator. Nowhere have I condoned the aggressive actions of any parties, Arab, Jew, American, Palestinian, or any religious faction that are involved in this foolish conflict. ....Peace....To`na Wanagi

Once it's all mixed up on the ground, Jewish blood looks pretty much like Arab blood.

Well Stated Number Seven. (PS... Odd Name - I won't inquire).

I have been following some of Gary's posts and I have to say there seems to be a lot of 'anger' and 'frustration' rooted in the messages. Of course I am certain that things have not been easy for Gary - and he may be to some extent justified - but I wonder if ANY OF US can really take a moment to address the bigger picture of accountability.

So I wanted to take his post and 'spin' it around in such a way to exemplify how it mirrors not just global conflicts but personal battles as well. Hopefully this will stimulate some discussion - not on politics, but on family conflict resolution - and being a good neighbor.

Gary - I believe ALL acts of violence regardless of who they are against or who's blood is spilled are essentially BAD. I could say that there seems to be some people in the world that may never get along, and to some extent do not want to seek peace... But I think that would be an oversimplification and naive conclusion.

In fact, I believe, MANY MANY families in that region and for that matter all regions of severe conflict - really do seek peace. After decades and in some cases hundreds of years of fighting how could the majority of people feel otherwise. So why do WE keep fighting. Could it be an agenda of our elected officials and corporate society? Could it be that they are taught hate rather than love? Could it be an alternate reality - that we just do not understand - and have we asked to understand it - or have we decided it is not important enough to enough to care as to what the other person or parties concerns are?

Let us not kid ourselves. Economies typically do better in time of conflict - but only if you have the support of the people. (America is attacked - folks rally - assembly lines roar - products are shipped). Elected officials are in 'greater need' when we are in conflict. (Victims look towards their leaders for answers and resolutions.) {Statistical fact: A leader at the time of War or Military Conflict has a 70% better chance at reelection - regardless of the acceptance of the conflict by the general public. -- Note re-elections of FDR, Nixon, Bush -- go back further if you want, and not just on our side of the pond.}

Does this mean war and conflict are creations of our governments? No, of course not... But are they perpetually festered by our elected leaders? One might argue - yes.

Not to be specific to any one leader, because regardless of your country of origin - they may all be the same to some extent, however I want to address President Obama - because he was mentioned in Gary's Original Post title.

Both the media and the government officials, have a tendency to 'spin' any act of aggression to fit their agenda or need. In this case - an incident that did not involve any known American, seems easily blamed on an American. (Accountability). More so, it is blamed on 'pressures from Obama', when in fact the discussions about check points started well before Obama's administration took office. In fact we should go back to Bush Sr for real pressures.

But are pressures for PEACE a bad thing?

When President Obama took office, he fulfilled one of his promises - to take part in an open dialogue with our enemies. Many criticized him for that action. Many said we should not 'negotiate' with terrorist. (Note - an open discussion and dialogue does not imply negotiation - but it is a great scare tactic developed by those with opposing agendas.) Many said we should not meet with these enemies for fear of 'validating' their existing or accrediting their leadership role.

I often wondered at hearing those comments - where have we gone as a society when TALKING has become so feared. Clearly not talking has not seemed to work. Clearly fighting only leads to more fighting and retaliation. (Who wants to wager next weeks offerings that there will be a 'retaliation' body count to follow the reported incident in Gary's post - within 30 days.)

Sure it may not be 'acceptable' to talk to these evil people - but what if by some small chance talking to them could lead to a peaceful resolution? Oh shall we pray for such response. How dare we. The fact is, talk is cheap - and in this case that is good. Talking is not the same thing as conceding or even compromising, but maybe those two acts must be considered as well. Or are we all too narrow minded. Do we all suffer from tunnel vision. Do we truly believe we are the only righteous ones in any argument.

Have we ever seriously asked ourselves WHY are we so hated? What have we done to foster such feelings? What can we do to make things right?

God forbid - A electoral death sentence would be imposed on any politician who said such things. But the fact of asking oneself these question is NOT the same as admitting fault, guilt, or accountability. It is merely a step in the process which must be made if we are ever to seek resolution.

So how does all this global conflict mirror personal conflicts? Because that is truly the topic of my reply.

When children fight, parents argue, spouses ignore, neighbors impose - are these all not conflicts?

Do we not teach our children to resolve matters peacefully. To 'negotiate' terms based on the feelings of others, as well as ourselves. Do we not ask parents to work together in raising children, even when separated. To work as a unified team - agreeing to serve the welfare of the child before the desire of the parent. Do we not counsel the spouses together. Do we not discuss the importance of seeing both sides of the disagreement, no matter how unfair that may seem. Do we not encourage neighbors to remove fences, become socially connected - understand the desire for peace on both sides of the property line?

Can we agree that WE are not always right? Is it not possible that what the other person thinks is based on some foundation of fact - even if it is not what was intended, the perception of our acts may have lead to their beliefs?

Does this mean that we should cave and simply apologize and do what they want? Of course not. But have we considered the pros and cons of what it is they desire. Have we considered the end result. Is there a middle ground that would be acceptable to all - or should total destruction be the only answer?

Can we reason with unreasonable people? This is the hardest thing for us to come to terms with - and even I find it confusing. In some way - almost daunting and doubtful. But I do believe as 'reasonable' people, it is our duty to continue to try. We should never give up hope of finding a middle ground.

Whether it be in the schoolyard, the home, the marriage, the neighborhood, or the world - peace and love are the only answers that we must seek. How we get there is the true question.

So back to our war. Can we reason with unreasonable terrorist? And for the record they are only terrorist to us. To their sovereignty they are heroes, leaders, citizens of cause. STOP.. before you think or assume I just gave them validation or for that matter the respect of GOOD over evil. Do not confuse my words with the perceptions of their citizenship. The point of that statement is to make it clear - they are only enemies to us. They are believers to those where they reside. They are patriots to their country, as we are to ours.

So can we reason with unreasonable people? Maybe not. Should we stop trying? I pray not.

Simple fact - Let us assume for instance that the chants we hear so often in the streets (Death to America) is truly the belief of the entire country, and not just the assembled for CNN. Let us assume that they are told from age 5, and throughout their academic years how America is the evil tyrant to be feared and destroyed. Let us assume they have no other belief but the hatred of America and the core value that the only way to resolution is via the total destruction and death of all, including the innocent. All this is completely unreasonable to us - and one could argue - we will never change their belief. BUT....

If we truly concede that we can never change their belief - and we can never come to terms of peace - then we have no other choice but to destroy them. Should we go to battle and kill the adults who are attacking us? Is that the answer - not really - why not... because the BELIEF we are talking about is being taught at birth and beyond, if the assumptions are true. So how do we STOP the belief - well we must kill off the young - stop the generational passing of misinformation, and start afresh. OH PRAY - Does that answer make us terrorist? I would argue YES. Does that make us unreasonable? Yes. Does that solution - the only solution if we shall not talk or create dialogue - does that solution not make us as guilty as those who attack us? Yes.

Of course we have not gotten to that point yet. But are we headed that way? How do you change a cultural way of thought, if not from the root. God forbid. So how can we change the beliefs of the children? We must GET INFORMATION TO THEM. How? Remove the fences.

So how do we come to term with peace?

We sit with our children. We eat with our families. We love our spouses. We invite our neighbors in. We take down fences. We remove restrictions to social connectivity. We allow people to talk.

When the wall came down in the Soviet Union - peace was obtained. When 'checkpoints' were removed - the flow of information increased, and the masses were no longer lead astray with disinformation. Oh yes, there was some fighting too. People will always fear change and peace. People who want control will fear the flow of information and try to stop it. They will tell you this is a bad thing. That terrorist will come in freely and it will create anarchy. But for every terrorist that enters South through the gate, ten peaceful law abiding, God loving, reasonable people will cross North and enlighten the masses who have been led astray for oh so long.

The 'fall' of the Soviet Empire - the taking down of the wall - can be seen as a prime example. I have had the opportunity of housing visiting Russians and Iron Curtain since the fall. I was amused to discover how they were told as children of the pending America Threat of Nuclear Destruction. That the Arms Program in Russia was a defense program designed to prevent the terrible evil America of making unreasonable acts of aggression. We were the crazy folks with the finger on the button. We were they and they were us. Our leaders were oppressing the citizens of America. The bread lines in Russia were a direct result of America's influence on the global world - in boycotting trade with Russia, and it was our goal to destroy all citizens of Russia. To starve them. OH WHAT WE PREACH TO OUR CHILDREN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

Then the wall came down. Smaller Providences who sat on less restrictive borders and therefor had more external information, immediately requested separation. Civil war erupted, becasue control was lost. People died. All because if the Bad Bad American Influence and Pressures of Reagan, Bush, Clinton... name a President. But information flowed. People crossed. Freedome spread. God entered minds freely without persecution.

A necessary evil I suppose. Fences, walls, restrictions, and fighting can not be the answer.

So Gary - Yes - What occurred is a terrible thing. Yes it was unfortunate. Yes someone is to blame. Yes, someone should be accountable. Yes God will have his day. Yes we should do something to prevent it in the future. Yes it is so complex that my feeble attempts to simplify and reflect on the comparison of global, to internal, conflicts seems lame. BUT... Have you asked yourself today - Have WE Asked ourselves today...

How can I come to peace with my children, my spouse, my family, my neighbors, my enemies?

What fence should I take down?

Thank you for your post Dr Ray. I wholeheartedly agree. And I have stated in numerous posts, not only on this thread, that we should remove the plank from our own eye to see clearly the splinter in the eye of our brother/sister. All true dialogue must begin with "mote and plank". And if one chooses not to examine their side of the street, the solution usually results in words or actions that are less than charitable. And if we continue to bewail our own inadequacies, or the injustices imposed upon us, we are continuing to stay in the problem rather than standing upright and seeking a peaceful resolution. I have never, and will never accept, that war is a necessary evil.

My personal position is that we have not tried hard enough to open the communication fence that leads to a true dialogue. There are always two sides (or more) to every story, and somewhere in the middle lies the truth. As I too am a l e s b i a n woman and know the difficulties our lgbt community faces, I am also a Native American living on a rez in the southwest and understand the plight of my people. However.....I am also a realist and an objective minded person who does not only laud the praises of these communities, but as well, I remind the members of my respective communities that they too have shortfalls and are also not blameless. I remind them that we can do more to improve our image as a healthy community only by looking into the mirror and seeing with an open mind and with clarity that change begins with me.

And change is seldom realized if I am always carrying a big stick with me. It is the image of one always holding that stick that stigmatizes, stereotypes, and villifies, the intentions of the one holding it. And it will only be a matter of time before that stick is used against someone, or that someone dares to take that stick away. Either way, both sides lose. There are no winners in war. There is no victory or glory in war, only suffering and death. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "People only see what they are prepared to see." And in the end, it is the monster in the mirror who will be in charge.....God's Peace....To`na Wanagi