I've been Ordained for over a year and half and live in NY State (near Niagara Falls). I am still somewhat confused by the legality of offiating a wedding. What I have read in Section 11 of the NYS Domestic Relations Law, I'm fine with with my Ordination but then there is the catch: "Marriages may be Performed by a clergyman or minister of any religion. However, a 1972 court case said that in order for a marriage to be valid, the minister must have an actual church or at least a stated meeting place for worship or any form of religious observance."

I am a Christian and have given my life to Christ BUT I do not have an actual church that I minister at or have a stated meeting place of worship. In my Faith, I am the church and the Holy Spirit resides in me. I attend a weekly worship gathering in a building referred to as a church. Would this be a valid argument as to the validity?

I have only performed one ceremony but would like to be able to continue but want t make sure that when asked, I have a valid explanation as my legal ability to do so.

Thank you,
God Bless,
Erika B

Greetings to you my sister,

New York State is one of the few places in the US where the legality of ULC ordained ministers performing marriage ceremonies is somewhat problematic. Your best bet would be to get the advice of a lawyer in your area.

In Christ's service,
Padre

I too live in New York State (near Syracuse) and was wondering if EricaB had any information on the section 11 law. I have been asked to officiate a wedding in July and if I can't I need to inform the couple as soon as possible so they can make other arrangements.
Thank you,
apryls

I live near Niagara Falls as well in Buffalo. I wrote to the Erie County Clerk's office for an answer and this is what I got:

Thank you for contacting the Erie County Clerk's Office. Kathy Hochul has requested that I respond to your email.



The Clerk's Office has nothing to do with marriage licenses or requirements. However, I caution of the following:

According to New York law, an ordained minister of a recognized religion can perform marriages. See New York Domestic Relations Law § 11 which states ..." No marriage shall be valid unless solemnized by ...a clergyman or minister of any religion..." See also Religious Corporations Law § 2 which defines "clergyman" and the term "minister" to include "a duly authorized pastor, rector, priest, rabbi, and a person having authority from, or in accordance with, the rules and regulations of the governing ecclesiastical body of the denomination or order, if any, to which the church belongs, or otherwise from the church or synagogue to preside over and direct the spiritual affairs of the church or synagogue."

Whether incorporated or unincorporated, the church is either created to enable its members to meet for divine worship or other religious observances or exists as a congregation, society, or other assemblage of persons who meet for divine worship or other religious observances.

The criteria considered in determining whether the church is part of a recognized religion is whether it is incorporated as such or meets regularly for the purpose stated.


For your information, a mail order ordination and specifically, an ordination by Universal Life Church which is not considered a recognized religion in New York State, does not comply with New York State law. See Ravenal v Ravenal, 72 Misc. 2d 100; 338 N.Y.S.2d 324; 1972; and Ranieri v Ranieri, 146 A.D.2d 34; 539 N.Y.S.2d 382; (2nd Dept) 1989.


For more information, you may contact the State Vital Records office at 518-474-8187 or the City of Buffalo, Office of the City Clerk at http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/Home/City_D ... City_Clerk.







Please let me know if I can be of further service.



Patricia L. Fulwiler, Attorney

Deputy County Clerk - Legal


So I guess ULC ordained ministers are not legal in NYS...

* Edit I wish this was stated in the FAQ or on the page showing general marriage laws in each state. My little sister is getting married in June and asked me to perform the ceremony. If I had not taken the time to contact the county clerk and went through with it, my sister's marriage would end up not being legal. What a mess that would be.... My mother fortunately knows a minister who is willing to be present at the ceremony and sign the license.

But one issue that may pop up is that a congregation are the people that attend a religious service. This said a Marriage at least in a Christian or Jewish tradition is a religious service and you could argue that the place of the wedding is indeed the meeting place of the congregation. Additionally, I would like to see someone willing to challenge the NYS statutory regulations under the US and State constitutions for freedom of religion ... The state shall make no laws regulation the free practice of religion... Marriage is a religious sacrament and there is already a challenge to states that limits the churches right to give the sacrament at will to those of same gender relationships. This said, I do not live in NYS or any of the other states that question the ULC credentials.

Option 2 is quite simple; render unto Caesar what he thinks is his and render unto God what is truly his. Find a JP and fill out the state papers and have the religious ceremony separately, with your friends and family and other guests with your minister of choice under the eyes of your creator and with his blessing.

Option 3 is to do the Ceremony as desired and turn the papers in signed by the minister and take it to the courts and watch as heads roll and you find out that your marriage is in fact real under the supreme law of this country. This option requires someone that is exceptionally more daring than myself. States like NYS make me sick at the abuse and neglect of the constitutional law of our land.

one more post of mine deleted though I violated none of their rules sigh.... let's try this again for the idiot that deleted my post it was titled the arrogance get bent, and stop deleting my posts!!!!
Please read I have a possible solution as a matter of fact it is legal in new york state they simply have stricter licensing standards which they have no right to do. So here it is your options have a judge perform a civil service to make it look good, or perform the ceremony under the first Amendment congress shall make no law respecting religion. If that doesn't work contact me by pm, and I'll ordain you. I have my own congregation, and can issue ordinations as i see fit so you have a legal way to morally tell those pencil heads they can't break the highest of laws in this country, and you're family can have the wedding they wish my order is ecumenical, and interfaith non denominational. Whatever is required i'll provide also you should contact the monastery, and let them know about this so they can institute legal action against new york for violating the law. After wards if you feel we're a good fit then remain, if not resign according to the christian bible which we don't follow but most on this forum are christian god has chosen, and ordained you. merely the fact you are here is a sign of the calling. check us out to see if this is acceptable to you http://www.freewebs.com/theorderofnightsembrace

Incidentally the law states that
New York

From State Code: A clergyman or minister of any religion, or by the senior leader, or any of the other leaders, of The Society for Ethical Culture in the city of New York, having its principal office in the borough of Manhattan, or by the leader of The Brooklyn Society for Ethical Culture, having its principal office in the borough of Brooklyn of the city of New York, or of the Westchester Ethical Society, having its principal office in Westchester county, or of the Ethical Culture Society of Long Island, having its principal office in Nassau county, or of the Riverdale-Yonkers Ethical Society having its principal office in Bronx county, or by the leader of any other Ethical Culture Society affiliated with the American Ethical Union. The term "clergyman" or "minister" when used in this article, shall include those defined in section two of the religious corporations law. The word "magistrate, " when so used, includes any person referred to in the second or third subdivision. Definition: "The term "clergyman" and the term "minister" include a duly authorized pastor, rector, priest, rabbi, and a person having authority from, or in accordance with, the rules and regulations of the governing ecclesiastical body of the denomination or order, if any, to which the church belongs, or otherwise from the church or synagogue to preside over and direct the spiritual affairs of the church or synagogue." Excerpted from Article 3, Section 11, of the Domestic Relations code
For the City of New York: We include two letters with ordination packages shipped to New York that meet the City requirements. For more information see the following:

*

The New city Clerk site

Marriage Officiant Registration Form (note this is an Adobe Acrobat document)
*

Getting Married in New York State

Who can perform a marriage ceremony? To be valid, a marriage ceremony must be performed by any of the individuals specified in Section 11 of the New York State Domestic Relations Law. Which Includes:

*

a member of the clergy or minister who is not authorized by a governing church body
but who has been chosen by a spiritual group to preside over their spiritual affairs
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other officiants as specified by Section 11 of the Domestic Relations Law

Marriage Officiant Registration Information Officiant Registration: Registration is conducted on Monday thru Friday from 8:30 a.m. to 3:45 p.m. Section 11-b of the Domestic Relations Law requires that all persons authorized by law to perform marriages register with the City Clerk's office before performing wedding ceremonies within New York City. Therefore, if you intend to perform a marriage ceremony within New York City you must register. If your activities are outside of New York City the registration requirement does not apply to you. There is a $15 charge, payable in money order only, for registration.