Ok, today I was asking myself some deep down questions about my beliefs etc and where they came from, what ones were my own and what ones were drummed into me by a Bible thumper of a minister when I was a child.
One thing kept coming to my mind from recent times. Angels and the sheer numbers of people who "use" them as a channel to Jesus/God.

What are the Forum members thoughts on this "new wave" of people who ask Angels for help rather than Jesus. Are they scared of Christ? Cann't relate to Him? And, what about "Angel" Tarot cards as a means to "figure out what to do next" tpye thing like thay are used. Is this a total abhorrance to God perhaps? Or, because it was Maggi that foretold of the coming its actually ok if its God granted.


Rev.d John

Guzzik;
I have collection of white porcelain Angels that I collect. Obviously with their wings outspread they can get knocked over and broken fairly easy. This happened at my office in the cathedral one day and I allowed this broken Angel to stay as it was, thinking it had a purpose. When the church decided to remove one of the priests whom I dearly loved, and at a time when my ministry called me into the streets, I took this angel and gave it to my priest friend with this note;
"When an Angels wings are broken, its heart is broken too. It exists only to love and serve the Creator and do what it was sent here to do. But now it is broken and cannot complete its assignment, and its grief is unbearable. We can try to fix it, to glue it, put it al back together and make it look good. But we, and the Angel, all know it will never be the same. And it knows it will only be a matter of time before it is broken again. I think mostly we never recognize the Angels in our own midst. How does it go?, 'Be kind to strangers knocking on your door, for you may be entertaining Angels unawares.' So I leave this broken Angel in your care to do with what you wish. Maybe you can fix it, maybe it will become a sermon, or maybe it will be a memory that is better off thrown into the trash.Whatever your decision, I hope it will be in line with these six words I have tried to live by, 'To thine own self be true.' For even though I am weary of this world, I know God's work is never done."
God's Peace and Love....To`na Wanagi

Thank you for that To ' na, it was very sweet and eloquent.

John

Dear Guzzik,

As far as I the information given to me, my understanding of angels is that they are like us in that they have no greater power than us, other than that which God has charged them with.
But the tarot cards and such are a different matter. I think the sin that the bible speaks of is in regards to the principles of what is going on there. Does the seeker wish to know the future, his or otherwise? Does the reader wish to deceive the seeker from his money or simply take over the job of God? In either case, both can be at risk of sin. One can say whatever they want but their heart will not deceive God. If in fact the tarot or the like are used by reason to foretell the will of God would that not be the domain of God himself? Since it is, then would it not be more wise of the seeker to consult the source on these matters?
It is in fact so much easier to receive answers from a deck of cards, as I have yet to see such cards without answers. But should one rely on this source? Can you be sure these answers are from a pure source? Would you suspect the answers the same way if it came from God?
We are an impatient people, full of worries and doubt. We want our answers like we want our food, pleasant to our senses, fast, easy and cheap. This is why I believe people would prefer to consult cards and the like instead of seeking God’s council. God’s word is not always so pleasing to our senses as it is true no matter how we bargain. God’s word can be fast, but it still takes effort and patience. God’s word is final, pure, and loving, and there is no one who can afford to buy it, yet it is given freely to anyone who seeks it.
Another area of concern I think would be does the seeker/reader believe more in the power of the cards than of God? If so, than this would be a form of idolatry. If the answer is no, then why seek the cards in the first place? But if it is made known by the reader to the seeker that it is the power of God which is invoked through the cards, then again, I would have to say that this is still not a satisfactory method. For God is all-powerful, all knowing, loving, pure and divine. Our love and obedience to him should reflect as close to the same as we are able. He is deserving of at least that measure of respect and honor.
Further more, why would anyone wish to eliminate their communication directly with God and rob themselves of the blessing and opportunity of a spiritual bonding with Him?


To `na,

That was a very beautiful story you have shared. What a treasure you are to have such inspiration flow so naturally from your spirit.

May God bless you and keep you strong in His service.

Rev. Campbell.

Ok folks, thanks for the input. You can close the thread now if you wish Mods.

John

From a biblical standpoint, both a general description, and general nature of angels are pretty vague. From various passages, a few things can be gleaned:

1. Angels seem to be of a spiritual nature, but can be manifested in the physical world.
2. Either there are different types of angels, or they can alter thier appearance as needed.
3. They seem to have a specific heirarchy and chain-of-command. From top, to bottom:
The Angel of the Lord-this appears to be the senior angel who sits near God and directs all the other angels, sort of a Chief-Of Staff.
Archangels, specifically Michael and Gabriel-they apear to be senior over their respective areas of responsibility. Michael appears to be the militant section leader, and directs acts of destruction and retribution. It is Michael who must fight Satan in Revalations. Gabriels duties appear to be of a more strategic nature. There may be more unnamed archangels.
Cherubims-appear to be the 'foot solders', who carry out most of the physical duties, such as general messages, security, escorting and other duties as directed.
Seraphims-seem to be the 'Chaplains', and carry out ceremonial duties both in heaven and on earth, for humans, and other angels, and even in the presence of God.
4. It seems that they have no authority of their own, but act as Messengers, escorts, Security Guards, when assigned by God to specific people, places or things, overseers, and at times, enforcers and destroyers.
5. They appear to be 'middle-management', somewhere between God/Jesus and humans.
6. Satan was evidently an senior (arch?) angel at one time, with a number of angels serving under him. An incident ocuured that resulted in him being banished, along with his followers, from heaven, and they became the devil, and demons. From time to time, other angles must be banished for various transgression, becomming 'Fallen Angels". It is unclear what happens to them.
7. While the exact number of angels is unknown, we do know from scripture, that at the time of Jesus, there were at least 12 legions of angels. 12 legions would be 72,000 individual angels. If they have not increased in number since them, I would imagine that today, they are spread pretty thin.
8. Angels can only be seen and understood by humans with spiritual aid.
9. Angels appear to have 'free-will', much as humans, and the ability to consciously choose between good and evil, and can disobey at will. It seems that they are held responsible and accountable for their actions.

The Catholic Church has expanded on these topics, but where they get their information (except maybe divine inspiration) is unclear.

Saints occupy a special place, and do not become angels. Saints have very specific areas of influence.

That just about exhausts my knowledge on the subject.