TV Evangelist Jerry Falwell Dies at 73

By SUE LINDSEY
Associated Press Writer
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Rev. Jerry Falwell Dies at 73

LYNCHBURG, Va. (AP) -- The Rev. Jerry Falwell collapsed at his campus office and died Tuesday after a career in which the evangelist used the power of television to transform the religious right into a mighty force in American politics. He was 73.

The founder of the Moral Majority was discovered without a pulse at Liberty University and pronounced dead at a hospital an hour later. Dr. Carl Moore, Falwell's physician, said he had a heart condition and presumably died of a heart rhythm abnormality.

Driven into politics by the 1973 Supreme Court ruling that established the right to an abortion, Falwell founded the Moral Majority in 1979. One of the conservative lobbying group's greatest triumphs came just a year later, when Ronald Reagan was elected president.

YES!! BURN, JERRY, BURN!! This is a great day, and I beleive a monument to celebrate the day that Jerry Fallwell was cast into the Hells should be erected.
I wish I could see his bloated rotting corpse with my own eyes, and cast his putrid sack of flesh into a hole. I really would enjoy that!! BURN JERRY BURN!! BURN, you rotten evil, sick bastard, butn for a million years and be reincarnated as a black, gay transvestvite!! BURN!!
I can see him in my minds eye, writhing in flames that he condemned so many to. Oh yes, he will wail for centuries as his vile hatred is purified by fire....HHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!!

I'm sorry folks...I always looked forward to the day he'd be wormfood, and NOW IT'S HERE!! Jesus can't help you now Jerry, cuz where you are there is no hope HAHAHAHAHA..Burn in Hell you church pig, I wish I could record your screams of unutterable suffering in the firey pit. I hope Satan himself rips the flesh off your bones, and then you'll be a screaming skeleton,

BURN BURN BURN!!!! BURN BURN BURN!!

One fundementalist quack down and in Hell, hopefully Robertson will be next. Please God, send Robhertsobn down into the hell of Avarice, the scheming snake oil scam artist. BURN BURN BURN!!

uncalled for. you want acceptance and understanding do you? this behavior wont get it, it only again reveals the ugliness and filth within

I'll give you some of the Right Reverends qoutes?

If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

This is probably as bad a day as the court has had on social issues since "Roe v Wade."
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, reacting to the Supreme Court's ruling in the Texas sodomy case, "Lawrence v. Texas," wherein the high court upheld an individual's (or a couple's) right to privacy; "It is a promise of the Constitution that there is a realm of personal liberty which the government may not enter," said Justice Anthony M Kennedy, for the majority in an opinion "as broad in its constitutional vision as any ever issued by the court," wrote Charles Lane for The Washington Post; in his dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia, an extremist Evangelical Christian, complained that the justices voting to uphold the right to privacy were creating a new constitutional right, that they were not upholding the Constitution, quoted from "Planned Parenthood Federal Action Report" (July, 2003) ††

I had a student ask me, "Could the savior you believe in save Osama bin Laden?" Of course, we know the blood of Jesus Christ can save him, and then he must be executed.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, cited in Cary McMullen, "Falwell: Now Is the Time for Gospel," in the Lakeland (Florida) Ledger (November 12, 2001), quoted from Randy Cassingham, This is True (18 November 2001). Falwell added: "We visit prisoners on death row, and some of them are saved, but we believe their sentences should be carried out because they have a debt to society."

God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson agreed, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson again agreed, quoted from AANEWS #958 by American Atheists (September 14, 2001)

And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

I sincerely believe that the collective efforts of many secularists during the past generation, resulting in the expulsion from our schools and from the public square, has left us vulnerable.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, after the 700 Club broadcast wherein he had blamed civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, speaking to The New York Times, quoted from Richard Meyer, "Holy Smoke," CBS News (September 15, 2001)

I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist, [but America's] secular and anti-Christian environment left us open to our Lord's [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and expels God from the culture ... the result is not good.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, backpedaling amidst criticism of his statement blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU, and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang "God Bless America" and said "let the ACLU be hanged"? In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time -- calling upon God.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, justifying the breech of Constitutional Separation of Religion from Government while blaming civil libertarians for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson again agreed, quoted from AANEWS #958 by American Atheists (September 14, 2001)

I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979 pp. 52-53, from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976

If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth ... We need to pull out all the stops to recruit and train 25 million Americans to become informed pro-moral activists whose voices can be heard in the halls of Congress.
I am convinced that America can be turned around if we will all get serious about the Master's business. It may be late, but it is never too late to do what is right. We need an old-fashioned, God-honoring, Christ-exalting revival to turn American back to God. America can be saved!
-- Jerry Falwell, "Moral Majority Report" for September, 1984

It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

There is no separation of church and state. Modern US Supreme Courts have raped the Constitution and raped the Christian faith and raped the churches by misinterpreting what the Founders had in mind in the First Amendment to the Constitution.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible,without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc.
-- Jerry Falwell, Finding Inner Peace and Strength

But these things speak evil of those things, verse 10 [reading from Jude] which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Look at the Metropolitan Community Church today, the gay church, almost accepted into the World Council of Churches. Almost, the vote was against them. But they will try again and again until they get in, and the tragedy is that they would get one vote. Because they are spoken of here in Jude as being brute beasts, that is going to the baser lust of the flesh to live immorally, and so Jude describes this as apostasy. But thank God this vile and satanic system will one day be utterly annihilated and there'll be a celebration in heaven.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, "Old Time Gospel Hour" broadcast, March 11, 1984, quoted by Rev Jerry Sloan, "Is Jerry Falwell a liar?" Freedom Writer, September, 1994

The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior.
-- Jerry Falwell, Listen, America!

Grown men should not be get ordained with prostitutes unless they are married to them.
-- Jerry Falwell, on CNN's Crossfire, May 17, 1997

I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, USA Today Chat, quoted from The Religious Freedom Coalition, "The Two faces of Jerry Falwell"

Dan Moldea, the lead investigator for Larry Flynt's ongoing quest to uncover sexual indiscretions of Republican congressional members, has now admitted he was hired by the law firm defending President Clinton.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, from "The Bizarre Flynt-Clinton Connection," in the January 15, 1999, "Falwell Confidential" fax report to 162,000 members, referring to the firm Williams & Connolly. Dan Moldea responded, "This entire statement is false and misleading, reckless and malicious. It is a complete fabrication." However, the San Diego Union-Tribune picked up the fabrication and ran it as fact. Quoted from The Religious Freedom Coalition, "The Two faces of Jerry Falwell."

Jerry FalwellWe're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism ... we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today ... our battle is with Satan himself.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

You'll be riding along in an automobile. You'll be the driver perhaps. You're a Christian. There'll be several people in the automobile with you, maybe someone who is not a Christian. When the trumpet sounds you and the other born-again believers in that automobile will be instantly caught away -- you will disappear, leaving behind only your clothes and physical things that cannot inherit eternal life. That unsaved person or persons in the automobile will suddenly be startled to find the car suddenly somewhere crashes.... Other cars on the highway driven by believers will suddenly be out of control and stark pandemonium will occur on ... every highway in the world where Christians are caught away from the drivers wheel.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, in his pamphlet, "Nuclear War and the Second Coming of Christ," quoted from Ronnie Dugger,"Does Reagan Expect a Nuclear Armageddon?" in Washington Post Outlook (April 8, 1984)

comments?

1) Do you support these qoutes from the deceased Reverend?

2) If you don't, then did you speak out while he was alive?

3) Would you please tell me if you agree with these comments in particular: AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters.
3a) his comment here:
I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!
3b) The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976
3c)AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
3d)God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve

I could be wrong but, isn't there anything in the Edenists Edict
about being given the same judgment that you give to others.





Looks like somebody missed snack time?






Okay, all kidding aside:

Your lack of compassion, for those who still live against you
is, at best, immature.
However, your lack of compassion for those
who havre faced the angel of death is an evil kind of
stupidity.

Like the spirit of Faldwell, you can look forward to
facing the same measure of hate that you give to others.

You dreaming if you think you're entitiled to
understanding.

You don't deserve any compassion or understanding.
You have been consumed by that which you have hated,
and now...you are a worse evil than those who have pursecuted
you.

That is why you are only a child, demanding
that others let you and accept you in you delusion.

But, you will not be accepted for what YOU believe
yourself to be...and neither will the others
you've listed.


Your very own reflection shows, you are not what you think
you are!

Do you believe the truth when your own eyes show you?

Someday Jason (I will not call you Reverend
because you do not revere life), you will see
that you are living in the same cursed perception as
The Reverend Jerry(MHRIP).
Trapped and almost dead, because of the lies
you believe, which also made those who have been lied to-
hate you.

WAKE UP!!!

Faldwell, as only one of billions of GOD's created
human vessels, was just as lost and trapped in dark hateful
perceptions of people, as the people were, of him.

You wouldn't judge two lost travelers for being unable
to give directions...
I don't at least.


P.S.
It about time to, "rightly divide", between
the civil rights struggle of blacks and the declarations
of of rights by gays, trans genders, transvstites, etc.


Basically...it not the same civil rights struggle.

Blacks struggle to remove oppression and
to be recognized as valueable to society.

The others struggle to be acknowledged
and accepted for their view of life.

It's clearly not the same thing!!!

I don't know that I would have put it intot the same flaming words, but his passing is probably a great thing for both sides of the aisle. Besides the fundamentalism being an insult to the rights our soldiers have fought and died for, but he was an embarrassment to Christians all over the world...the straight white male ones of course.

Sometimes things are just plain wrong, and he was one of them.

I should have clarified...


I am with you, Reverend Baby Jason...

Mr. Falwell was many things, but he was hardly a Christian.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: The Edenic Faith does NOT condemn Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, e.t.c . We DO, however, apply the teaching Jesus said which was "Do Unto Others As You Would Have Done To You".
If Mr. Falwell had had his way, homosexuals would more then likely be imprisoned, and most other faiths would more then likely be oppressed or suppressed. Mr. Falwell never made any bones that this was a CHRISTIAN country, ignoring the millions of not only Jews, Pagans, Muslims, Sihks, e.t.c, but also the millions of LIBERAL Christians.
I had a little fun with it. Besides, going to hell is not as horrible for an Edenist as it is for a Fundementalist Christian. In our theology, Hell, which has 8 of them, is NOT ETERNAL!
According to the late Rev. Fallwell, I am a second class citizen who is the cause of al that happends wrongto America. I am in leauge with Satan, and am positively diabolical and thouroughly evil. If the late Rev. Fallwell, had been asked about Ab's, the transgendered, homosexuals, hewould quite cheerfully tell you that we were doomed to an ETERNAL HELL, unless we asked Jesus to forgive us foe being disgusting perverts.
Since Mr. Fallwell beleived a horrific disease was the JUST FATE of homosexuals, the death of THOUSANDS in the hideous tragedy of 9-11 was because their were feminists and secularists in America, I have little sympathy for Mr. Fallwell.

Mr. Fallwell's theology was based on hatred for all different from him. He and others like him sought to impose their particular brand of Christianity on all, whether they agreed with his sect or not.

I ask you to imagine the world as created by Mr. Fallwell. Imagine a world where homosexuals are arrested and possibly executed; Where the schools job is to teach biblical literacy and Fundementalist Christianity. Imagine if you were me, in an America ruled by Mr. Fallwell and others like him?
I am afraid, friends, I would either be locked up, executed or castrated. Mr. Fallwell would see to it that before I went to his eternal Hell of torment and pain, that he would make Hell for me on this Earth.

No, Mr. Fallwell will reap as he sowed. He had hate in his heart, and that hate is now being cleansed in the Hells. I am sorry, but it is true. Jerry Fallwell is now in Hell, and it was his choice. He choice to go to Hell by his continuing persecution and explotation of the weak and marginalized and the poor.
Even if you grant Mr. Fallwell was right, please tell me if you people that were so angry at my comments did ANYTHING to oppose Mr. Fallwell and his religion of hate while he was alive? Did you speak up against or did you remain silent?

Probably many of you didn't. After all, you weren't gay, you weren't a black person (see Mr. Fallwell's comments on the Civil Rights Movement), you aren't poor. But just imagine if he had gotten his way. Can you imagine having the Taliban right next door? And you did NOTHING to oppose them?

They came for the Jews and I said nothing because i wasn't a Jew.
They came for the Communist and I said nothing because I wasn't a Communist.
They came for the Gays and i said nothing because I wasn't Gay.
They came for the Catholics and I said nothing because I wasn't Catholic.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left because they had taken everyone else.

It's like a lot of things, you either get it or you don't.

But my suggestion is you visit Tehran, Iraq and spend a year there. After you come back, please tell me how the Ayahtollah and Jerry is different.
If you really agree with him, maybe you can stay. Or join the Taliban.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1 ... 50,00.html

Let's see; Jesus of Nazareth asked God to forgive those who were cricufying him. Becasue, they didn't know what they were doing.

I am and have been strongly opposed to any person declaring self to be a minister of God to become involved in "politics." I have never accepted Falwells dogmatic beliefs.

However, Falwell was a victim as many are of believing matters to be true that were not true. He was a human being and one of mankind. Did he err? Did he sin? Did he do harm to others?

God is the judge of these matters by His righteousness. Does anyone know for sure if Falwell was enlightened in his last hours, days, weeks, minutes, and came to his right mind? Does anyone know for sure how God has judged him?

Let's remember Paul before his transformation when he was known as Saul of Tarsus. Was God able to change this person?

It was once said by a wise man; "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

If you possess the ability to judge in righteousness, then you know the word of Falwell may be judged by you, but the person of Falwell is judged by God alone.

What does it say of a person who wishes ill will for another? Didn't Jesus of Nazareth spend his time teaching salvation instead of condemnation? It is said God hates the sin but loves the sinner. What about Falwell? Should a person love him? Should a person express good will toward him?

Is this not the test to determine if a person is a true "Christian" or not? Was it not commanded to love your enemies? And if you love only those who love you, what reward do you have?

The love of God is for people like Falwell as much as it is for those dear to you. Hatred and ill will toward another person is never justified.

It is my hope and has been that all people eventually receive salvation by God. This includes Falwell. It is a good thing to recognize God's ability to transform a person and desire this for another person. This, is the love of God.

And is not every child of God required by God to obey the principles of God especially the principle of love?

Who did Jesus of Nazareth die for? Just the "good" people? Just those who pleased him? Who was he loving when he said; "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." His friends and loved ones?

With the manner you judge you shall be judged yourself as to your righteousness or lack of righteousness for how you judge determines your righteousness or lack thereof.

A mother and father continue to love their child even when the child commits atrocities. They do not love the atrocities but continue to love the child hoping the child will change. How much more does God love and desire change in mankind? Perhaps another look at the word of Jesus of Nazareth will answer that.

doesnt matter..I was no Falwell fan myself..doesnt excuse your tirade

"The Edenic Faith does NOT condemn Christians" It doesnt? Your own edict condemend Catholicism as from the beast. Your own lies trip you

From the pit of Faldwell's torment there can only come
hatred.

From the heart of Jason's hatred, there can only come
condemnation.

From the mind of the false Christian's condemnation
there can only come confusion.

Such a mind is the first spirit in humanity
and, for a time, creates the chaos and confusion
we all endure.

But GOD was asked by Jesus (so the whole world
would hear) to forgive the confusion of men.

Even though that confusion steals, kills and
destroys the vessel of GOD's creation. (but not
the spirit of life in the vessel)

Faldwell is not the only one that destroys the
image of Christ in all Christians.

Anyone that does not comfort those who
suffer and encourage those who hope, does
not live in the thoughts of GOD; or for the Spirit
of Jesus.

This is the duty, glory and image of any true and
pure Christian, which sleeps in the hearts of humanity.

Again, comfort the suffering, (which is all of us
in times and seasons) so they may have hope...
and encourage the hopeful (which again, is us all)
so they may see the perfect reflection of The
Creator, in their own mirror.

Jason's hatred of Faldwell and for those like him,
is only a reflection of the ignorant
confusion that made his heart feel judged,
in times and season when he needed to be comforted
and encouraged to step out of the unreal image
of himself and into the real glory of his creator.

There will be no "burning in hell" for Mr. Faldwell
because GOD will forgive Faldwell's ignorance,
just as Jesus asked...
will Jason forgive as Jesus did?
Perhaps not.

But Jason's belief in being victimized by the ignorance
of others like Faldwell...well, it is such a belief
that makes the lie of hatred, the divisive enemy of
humanity.

Calling one's separation from the spirit of humanity,
something cute and pretty like "The Edenic Faith",
will not restore men's thoughts to GOD's Spirit.

But it will be used by GOD as a pathway through
the valley of the shadow of death, which Jason's
soul now journeys through.
(May GOD be merciful in His inspiration)

As for going to the Mid East to see your point Jason...
You don't point to an evil as proof of your evils being good.
It just doesn't work like that.

GOD's Peace To You

I can't say I'm sorry to see him go, and I think the world will be just a little better off without him.

I don't believe in Hell at all. I think that the whole idea of Hell was created by people who wish to see those who have hurt them punished. Jerry Falwell and I are equally ignorant when compared to God, and I hope that Mr. Falwell is having things explained to him, and that he can finally lay down whatever twisted his thinking in the first place.

Now that's a sentiment I can somewhat support.

But to suggest that he (Mr. Faldwell) should be
punished for being decieved...


Well, that kind of thinking puts us all in line to be
punished.


So, I refuse to stand in line with believers of lies and liars.
He (Mr. Faldwell) is no more condemned than I/we are.

In the Spirit of All Creation, is The One Creator.
The Creator would not punish or, condemn us for not
understanding and/or teaching this truth.

That would tantumount to quenching His own Spirit.
That's a judgmental mistake only humans continue to make.

Yes, of course.

We have a litmus test, which is this:

1) What does that religion say about people who live different lifestyles? Accepting or not accepting?

2) What does that religion beleive about other religions?

3) Does that religion beleive and work for the liberation of the oppressed? Does it judge on the basis of character and deeds, or does it judge on the basis of things like lifestyle or on one aspect of the person?

Answer to 1) Catholicism does not accept homosexuals, the transgendered or the Ab. They do not accept them as equal people

Answer to 2) Other religions are all false. Salvation is only in the Catholic Church.

Answer to 3) The Catholic Church does do good works, in many ways. However, it does not support liberation Theology, which is a movement dedicated to the liberation of the oppressed poor. It does most definitely judge on the basis of things besides deeds and character, to wit; homosexuals are sick, the transgendered are sick and by their very lifestyle their depraved.

Based on the answers supplied above, while the Catholic Church was a form or sect of Christianity, it does not meet the litmus test. Therefore, based on it's failure to meet this test, it is out of line with the goals and desires of the Church of Paradise.
If and when the Catholic Church changes it's perspective, we in turn will change our view of the Catholic Church.
The Edicts also make it clear we do not support any fundementalist form of ANY religion.

Our definition of Fundementalism: Any religion, philosophy or sect that condemns whole groups of people on any issue besides innappropriate behaviour or character. Any religion that prejudges whole groups of people, whether based on ethnicity, disability, sexual orientation , national origin or any factor that does not directly deal with actions by the person (such as stealing, killing and cheating).
Religions that ARE open to those who are different, and accept people on the basis of them being human and do not engage in the above are in Communion with the Church of Paradise

Definition of innapropriate behaviour: Any action that harms or violates the rights of another person, as pertains to property, person and the natural rights as definied by the Bill of Rights and the Constituion. Any behaviour besides these are entirely up to the freedom of counscious of the person.

For your benefit, I have appeded the below article discussing the FUNDEMENTALIST Jewish sect of Ultra Orthodox Judaism below that dosen't want women to dress the way they want or sit in the front of the bus.
By the way, we condemn them as well:

Middle East
Jerusalem's 'Rosa Parks' Fights 'Modesty Patrols'

Listen to this story... by Eric Westervelt

An ultra-Orthodox Jewish man rides a bus in Jerusalem in early February.
Enlarge
Gali Tibbon

An ultra-Orthodox Jewish man rides a bus in Jerusalem in early February. AFP/Getty Images



Morning Edition, February 12, 2007 · A group of Israeli women are fighting back against what one called "Taliban-like" Jewish fundamentalists who order women to sit in the back of the bus and to abstain from wearing "immodest" clothing on public bus lines. The women have filed a lawsuit in Israel's high court aimed at reforming bus lines used primarily by ultra-Orthodox Jews. Some of the women see the bus dispute as part of a larger struggle against the growing influence and radicalization of the ultra-Orthodox in Israel.

Writer Naomi Ragen says she did not want to start a revolution from her bus seat or become the Jewish Rosa Parks. She just wanted to get home. An observant, Orthodox Jew, Ragen was on the No. 40 bus line, headed to her house near Jerusalem, when an ultra-Orthodox — or Haredi — man told her to move to the back.

"I was astonished," Ragen recalled. "And I said 'I'm not bothering anyone. You don't have to look at me, sit next to me — but as long as this is a public bus, I will sit where I please, thank you very much.'"

Ragen says the harassment grew worse at every stop. Soon an even more aggressive, bearded ultra-Orthodox man got on and commanded her to move. He weighed about 300 pounds and hovered over her like a sumo wrestler, she says, his long, black frock and wide hat in her face.

"And he started screaming and yelling," she said, telling her to "move to the back of the bus — or else."

"My reaction to that was I looked him in the eye and said 'Look, you show me in the code of Jewish law where it's written that I'm not allowed to sit in this seat and I'll move,'" Ragen said. "'Until then, get out of my face!'"

Ragen may have been the Haredi's worst target: The feisty 57-year-old New York-born novelist and feminist has signed on to a new legal challenge to the de facto gender-segregation on more than 30 public bus lines in Israel, and the restrictions randomly enforced by men and self-styled "modesty patrols."

"I call this the Taliban lines," Ragen said. "They can call it whatever they want. But that, to me, is what they are. They're the Taliban lines and there's no reason we should have them in Israel. I think it's important that women have taken a stand and gone to the Supreme Court with this and said, 'We're angry and we're not going to take it anymore.'"

Ten years ago, as part of a pilot project, two bus lines dedicated to the ultra-Orthodox community were launched.

Today — unofficially — there are more than 30 gender-segregated Haredi bus routes. In many cases these buses are half the price and the only lines running between some cities and neighborhoods. They look like every other public bus: There are no signs telegraphing that they're aimed at the ultra Orthodox.

There are no written or overtly stated rules about gender segregation, either. It's just the way it is, says one rider who asked not to be named during a recent ride on the No. 40 bus in Jerusalem.

As the bus approached a Haredi neighborhood, four schoolgirls got up from their seats and moved to the back of the bus. None wanted to talk to a reporter.

The lawsuit before Israel's high court alleges that several women have been harassed, humiliated, taunted and even physically assaulted on the buses. In December, a Canadian Orthodox Jew was on a non-Haredi bus line en route to the Western Wall, Judaism's holiest site, when she was assaulted by an ultra-Orthodox man for refusing to move to the back of the bus. She has signed on to the lawsuit.

"She was physically hurt; she was beaten very hard," said Orly Erez-Likhowski, an attorney with the Israel Movement for Progressive Judaism, who is leading the legal fight against the Ministry of Transportation and the Egged bus company, a quasi-private line heavily subsidized by the state.

The Ministry refused to comment on tape. A spokesman said only that while the ministry approves new lines, the seating arrangements are left to the bus company.

The bus company released a statement saying they let the ultra Orthodox enforce their own rules. The company says its own surveys show that the general public wants "to respect the Haredi-religious sector that uses public transportation and to let them behave in a way that is convenient to them."

Erez-Likhowski said the suit doesn't aim to shut the bus lines down, but to have them regulated and reformed or to have an equal number of non-Haredi lines added.

"The ministry's attitude is, 'This is none of our business,'" Erez-Likhwoski said. His response? "But it is exactly your business to supervise the public bus companies and this is what you've failed to do over the past years."

Supporters say the legal challenge is part of a wider religious and cultural struggle against what some see as the growing radicalism and political clout of the ultra Orthodox. Last month, senior Haredi rabbis in Jerusalem led a public burning of see-through stockings and other allegedly risque dress.

Before a gay pride march last fall, Haredi men rioted nightly for weeks, forcing organizers to hold a toned-down rally in a heavily guarded stadium instead of a public march.

The Haredi recently launched a short boycott of El Al, Israel's national airline, after the company flew on the Sabbath following a flight bottleneck prompted by a labor strike. The airline quickly caved and pledged never to fly on the Sabbath without approval from ultra-Orthodox rabbis.

And in a major decision last month a committee of leading ultra-Orthodox rabbis here ruled that Haredi women should no longer be allowed to get academic degrees beyond high school.

It's a potentially devastating edict in a Haredi culture where many women are the main family breadwinner while the men study Torah full time.

Ragen says these moves are merely more attempts to control women.

"I think it's shocking," she said. "We have more and more streets with signs on them which say, 'Only women dressed modestly can walk through our streets,' — all of a sudden, our streets are being taken over. What's the next step? People don't want to stand on the same line at the supermarket? Maybe we'll have separate sides of the street and right after that come the veils."

But opponents call the lawsuit an attack on Haredi religious values and culture. Israeli educator and writer Shira Leibowitz-Schmidt, of the Haredi College for Women, says the gender segregation is a natural attempt by the ultra Orthodox to combat what they see as secular Israel's growing permissiveness and the eroticization of public spaces.

"Today in Israel, women go around sometimes as if they're at the beach," she said. "It's really very undignified and it's erotically stimulating and it's also just distracting. And that's a form of coercion — I call that non-religious coercion. I call that coercion of eroticism. That's a much more serious problem: the creeping degradation of the public square."

The de facto Haredi bus restrictions, she says, help men focus on their family — and their wife — and avoid distractions.

The legal challenge to the gender-segregated Haredi bus lines is scheduled to go before Israel's High Court later this year.

Satisfied?

is there some war in which we cannot see? to condemn anyone to a life of suffering, and humiliation in the abyss is to ask for such damnation yourself never judge the damned, and deceased for thier suffering only ends, and you will be judged by a judge from whom you cannot hide from. there is no war against edenicists, muslims christiand jews, mormons, or pagans and all religions has holier than thou people, also thought for thought those who look into the abyss both leave themselves, and bring something back with them. and none of that latin swill either like attracts like and to be angry, or evil is to attract evil to you same goes for the reverse he is dead his beliefs are extreme, but they were his beliefs, and it is foolish, and hate ful to sentence another spiitually, and i offer only my contempt to another who wishes another to eternal damnation, and suffering, and it's people like that i hope to defeat with the creation of the pagan church, to defeat hate, and religious intolerance. gods protect.

whats funny is you want to condemn the Catholic Church for saying salvation is only through it, yet you put the Eden church as the same. Nothing else meets your mighty criteria. quite amusing.

i don't condemn the catholic church for anything necessarily unless you count my personal beliefs of hypocrisy coming from the church itself, and that's not me condemming them. i serve the balence, and don't put any one religion as more important than another that's why i say what i do. i don't condemn people to burn in the abyss i don't believe that salvation is through any personal path in particular however the edenicist belief at least spoken by the representative on the forum is hateful, and angry. i am not perfect, and the idea of my mighty criteria is laughable i only rerquire that religion avoids extremism as much as possible is that mighty? gods protect all, yes all.

I believe he was talking to Jason.

yes I was

Obviously you haven't read CAREFULLY enough my post on Edenic theology..

"Salvation", is determined by whether a person reached the point of Gnosis. This is open to ALL people, irregardless if their an Edenist or not. Even you, truthseeker, could theoretically receive Gnosis, if G_d in his Grace gives it to you.

As for condeming all religions besidews ourselves, obvioudly that is incorrect. There are many churches and organizqtions we would be in communion with: Epicopalian Church, Unitarian Universalist Church, some sects of liberal Judaism, and I am sure some Muslim groups as well.
The criteria is not a criteria forwhether a person or individual from that religious organization will reach the 8th heaven. Rather it is a criteria wether the Church of Paradise is in communion with them.
If were not, then we neither support them nor would allow members of that religion, as long as their a part of it, to attend religious services at an edenist Sancturary, nor would we encouyrage OUR members to join them in prayer or to attend THEIR services.
For instance, we would never cooperate with the Westboro Church, that has the website named godhatesfags.com. Anybody that would attend that church would not be welcomed to our Sancturarys. Nor would a member of our Church attend that church, nor donate to them, nor support them in any form or kind.

We always let the door of future fellowship open, though. If the Catholic Church were to issue a statement recognizing the right for gay people, the transgendered and AB's to be full and equal members of the Catholic Church, and allow full equality for women in terms of ordaining women priests, wewould be glad to enter a state of communion with the Catholic Church and recognize them as such.

As for individual Catholics, I certainly beleive some have reached a point of Gnosis and I fully expect to see some in Eden when I end up their someday. I also fully expect myself to go to one of the Hells (if I haven't allready) and after being cleansed of that Vice being reincarnated again to continue my journey to Gnosis.
Salvation, as you term it, is open to all who receive G_d's Grace via the communication of the Gnosis to them.
So it's no big deal that Jerry Falwell is in Hell. He's there to be cleansed and purified to be reincarnated so that he can have a chance to reach Gnosis and the Grace of G_d. Heck, MOST people will go to Hell and be purified. It's not pleasant, but it's not Eternal and allows a person to reach Gnosis if they apply themselves.

First, of all the 8 Hells we beleive in, only ONE is Eternal. The other Seven are temporary, the soul being purified of Vice in it does not stay there FOREVER.

Second, MOST of us WILL go to one of the Hells. Only Saints, who are EXTREMELY RARE, go directly to the 8th Heaven, Eden. Saints have reached Gnosis and there is NO REASON for them to be purified in the Hells or to be reincarnated.

Third, people from ALL religious systems WILL reach the Gnosis by the Grace of G_d. Even those in some of the Fundementalist religions will. No one knows for sure WHO it will be, it depends on the Grace of G_d by giving them the Gnosis which saves.


Fourth, Gnosis shows its self through behaviour. Those who reach GNOSIS have reached a point where all the Virtues are practiced PERFECTLY by them. They are therefore, in terms of Christianity and other religions, SINLESS. They no longer do Vice of anykind.

Fifth, The Hells is good for us; they ready us for the next leg of our Journey to Gnosis and ready us for our next incarnation.

Sixth, if your Pagan churches agree with the criteria of ours, then you are in Communion with us, and we do not have anything negative to say about you or your Pagan churches.

so basically, if they say what you want, then yuoll tolerate them...yeah not too elitist..You proved, as usual, what I just said

And again, you did not read what I said. I can always tell, because you never seem to get what I say unless I say it in very simple terms. Which i, to tell you the truth, truthseeker, I am not suprised of.

Elitist? Huh.....sounds like the Beast to me. I can understand after years of being mentally twisted by their deception, their life hating theology and their Vanilla Hetrosexual Supremacist ideology that you would say that. Of course, the Church, which does not accept ANY religion bu t theirs, is not elitist.. Of course.

How sad. I wish I could liberate your mind from the cloud of mindcontrol your under. But alas, I fear that your far away from the Gnosis. Fear not though, my G_d, the Most High, is merciful to such as you. I am sure He will have pity on you. There is hope for you, you poor soul.

I will pray for you. I hope your next incarnation is better, and leads you closer to the Gnosis. Poor, poor truthseeker. What a tragedy.

A mind is terrible to waste.

ok, well you offered to simplify your explanation of your delusion, err, philosophy, yet you didnt offer it. care to now? or would you rather just duck behind the beast nonsense again? believe me, your psychiosis has more than revealed itself. and as usual, you are tripped up with your own words.

No I encourage you to read what I wrote before, and use what passess for a brain to understand it. I know thats probably not your strong point, after years of mental derangement by the Beast, but use whatever passess for a brain and see if you can manage to understand it.

Poor, poor truthseeker. Mentally damaged by years of inspid hatred and Vanilla Hetrosexual Supremacism. Poor, poor truthseeker. I'll pray for you.

im still waiting for the "simplified version". why do you avoid offering it?

"Poor, poor truthseeker. Mentally damaged by years of inspid hatred and Vanilla Hetrosexual Supremacism. Poor, poor truthseeker. I'll pray for you."

did I call your diaper stuff into this? why do you have to have a hate the hetero hissy fit? please dont pray for me, your god DEFINITELY isnt mine.

truthseeker...does the saying "Do not throw pearls before swine" have any meaning to you?

Even if I tried, you STILL would not get it. It would be a waste of my time, which I have wasted all too much allready, to try to explain the intracacies of our theology to you.

You would never understand; the only reason you want me to is so you can dissparage it and argue this little bit or that little bit and call me a hypocrite. My time is too precious, after having explained, as you yourself have said, over and over again our theology.

so basically, you cant, and my evaluation of your words is then acccurate