From Fragments of a Faith Forgotten Options

[Nanette]

From G.R.S. Mead "Fragments of a Faith Forgotten":

Supposing it possible that a man could love and revere all the great Teachers known to history as deeply and earnestly as each exclusive religionist reveres and loves his own particular Master; supposing that he could really believe in the truth of each of the great religions in as full measure, though without exclusiveness, as the orthodox of each great faith believes in the truth of his own revelation; supposing finally he could sense the Wisdom of Deity in active operation in all these manifestations,--what a glorious Religion would be his! How vast and strong his Faith when supported by the evidences of all the world-bibles and the exhortations of all the world-teachers! Persuaded of the fact of re-birth, he would feel himself a true citizen of the world and heir presumptive to all the treasures of the sacred books. Little would he care for the gibes of “eclectic” or “syncretist” flung at him by the analysers of externals and seekers after difference, for he would be bathing in the life-stream of Religion, and would gladly leave them to survey its bed and channels, and scrutinize the mud of its bottom and the soil of its banks’ least of all would he notice the cry of “heretic” hurled after him by some paddlers in a pool on the shore. Not however, that he would think little of analysis or less of orthodoxy, but his analysis would be from within as well as from without, and he would find his orthodoxy in the life of the stream and not in the shape of the banks.

[To`na Wanagi]

From G.R.S. Mead "Fragments of a Faith Forgotten":

Supposing it possible that a man could love and revere all the great Teachers known to history as deeply and earnestly as each exclusive religionist reveres and loves his own particular Master; supposing that he could really believe in the truth of each of the great religions in as full measure, though without exclusiveness, as the orthodox of each great faith believes in the truth of his own revelation; supposing finally he could sense the Wisdom of Deity in active operation in all these manifestations,--what a glorious Religion would be his! How vast and strong his Faith when supported by the evidences of all the world-bibles and the exhortations of all the world-teachers! Persuaded of the fact of re-birth, he would feel himself a true citizen of the world and heir presumptive to all the treasures of the sacred books. Little would he care for the gibes of “eclectic” or “syncretist” flung at him by the analysers of externals and seekers after difference, for he would be bathing in the life-stream of Religion, and would gladly leave them to survey its bed and channels, and scrutinize the mud of its bottom and the soil of its banks’ least of all would he notice the cry of “heretic” hurled after him by some paddlers in a pool on the shore. Not however, that he would think little of analysis or less of orthodoxy, but his analysis would be from within as well as from without, and he would find his orthodoxy in the life of the stream and not in the shape of the banks.

Nanette;
A wonderful quote and with great aspirations. There is only one problem with Mead's dream; it is tied to religion and faiths rather than spirituality. Religion/faiths unfortunately includes biases, prejudices, and hypocritical bigotries by virtue of its manmade doctrines and dogmas. Spirituality is capable of discerning the inequities of all religions/faiths and determines them unjust by the revelations given one by his/her Creator, and leaves no room for anything but love for their Creator and for all of creation. So, while I can appreciate the wisdom of ancient text and scripture, I also recognize the subtle discriminations mankind has incorporated into what was once sacred, and has now been corrupted by inserting these subtlies of hatred of persons, places, and things that do not fall in line with ones' own given/chosen theology/theocracy.

It is the distortion of truth, justice, hope, and peace that has corrupted our world today as it was in ancient times. I encourage all people to maintain a consciousness of conscience and to heed that voice that tells us something is wrong about any particular institution of thought, secularism, or theology. By practicing this myelf, I have discovered many areas of inequity myself that I had not previously recognized. If we close our minds to the fact that we have possible wrong allegiances, then we have closed our minds to the Spirit of the Universe that graces us with its own love for all of creation.

Eh, just a thought.

Thank you for the possibilities that others may read and share their own thoughts on this. It is an admirable pursuit at least to begin with....God's Peace......To`na Wanagi

[Nanette]

To`na Wanagi:

I read Mead's intent differently than you. Mead's use of the term "Religion" is not an inference to religions/faiths instead, it is a reference to a universal spirituality. Thus his reference to the life of the stream rather than the shapes of the banks. The life of the stream is spirituality and the shapes of the banks are specific religions.

Mead's absence of a singular religious bent is the reason I've always enjoyed reading Fragments of a Faith Forgotten. While this particular writing is specific to the emergence of the gnostics, I don't find his treatment taking the form of religion but rather, respecting and dissecting several modes of spirituality.

May your blessings always overflow your needs,
Namaste,

Nanette

Nanette;
A wonderful quote and with great aspirations. There is only one problem with Mead's dream; it is tied to religion and faiths rather than spirituality. Religion/faiths unfortunately includes biases, prejudices, and hypocritical bigotries by virtue of its manmade doctrines and dogmas. Spirituality is capable of discerning the inequities of all religions/faiths and determines them unjust by the revelations given one by his/her Creator, and leaves no room for anything but love for their Creator and for all of creation. So, while I can appreciate the wisdom of ancient text and scripture, I also recognize the subtle discriminations mankind has incorporated into what was once sacred, and has now been corrupted by inserting these subtlies of hatred of persons, places, and things that do not fall in line with ones' own given/chosen theology/theocracy.

It is the distortion of truth, justice, hope, and peace that has corrupted our world today as it was in ancient times. I encourage all people to maintain a consciousness of conscience and to heed that voice that tells us something is wrong about any particular institution of thought, secularism, or theology. By practicing this myelf, I have discovered many areas of inequity myself that I had not previously recognized. If we close our minds to the fact that we have possible wrong allegiances, then we have closed our minds to the Spirit of the Universe that graces us with its own love for all of creation.

Eh, just a thought.

Thank you for the possibilities that others may read and share their own thoughts on this. It is an admirable pursuit at least to begin with....God's Peace......To`na Wanagi

[To`na Wanagi]

To`na Wanagi:

I read Mead's intent differently than you. Mead's use of the term "Religion" is not an inference to religions/faiths instead, it is a reference to a universal spirituality. Thus his reference to the life of the stream rather than the shapes of the banks. The life of the stream is spirituality and the shapes of the banks are specific religions.

Mead's absence of a singular religious bent is the reason I've always enjoyed reading Fragments of a Faith Forgotten. While this particular writing is specific to the emergence of the gnostics, I don't find his treatment taking the form of religion but rather, respecting and dissecting several modes of spirituality.

May your blessings always overflow your needs,
Namaste,

Nanette

Nanette;
Hmmmm....but he uses the term, "bathing in the life-stream of religion". And yes, he does include investigating its banks and muddy bottom. But what troubles me is his failing to leave analysis and orthodoxy alone. It is there that religion actually begins. Even so, if more 'religionists' could even go so far as he has suggested, wouldn't it be a more wonderful world?

It is a beautiful aspiration nevertheless. Thank you for sharing it. Why don't you and I continue to pursue it? ...Wakan Tanka yawaste' nici un he mani wakan ini`pila.....May the Great Spirit also bless you and guide you down the sacred path of peace....To`na Wanagi

[Nanette]

I could be wrong in what I am about to say, it certainly wouldn't be the first time, but this is my take on his use of "Religion":

It is important to remember this work was written 100 years ago. During that time, there was a large "spirituality" movement. However, "spirituality" did not have the same connotation it does today.

In the late 1800's, spirituality was used when discussing seances, contact with out of body spirits, etc. It was not used to indicate a theosophical study.

In my reading of nearly all of Mead's works, I find that he uses the word Religion as we would use the word spirituality today. He goes out of his way to elucidate a personal philosophy that does not favor one religion over another.

In fact, the point of what he is saying in the quote I proffered is that if a man could disassociate himself from his personal religious fervor and instead, embrace the Wisdom found in all religions, he would be able to live in the life stream of Religion.

Again, I could be wrong, but it is the understanding I have of his personal position on the subject. I have never found anything in Mead's writings that would lead me to believe he had a preference for any religion. To the contrary, I have taken from his writing that he abhors the separtism and elitism found in all religions.

I'd love to continue exploring with you.

Nanette

Nanette;
Hmmmm....but he uses the term, "bathing in the life-stream of religion". And yes, he does include investigating its banks and muddy bottom. But what troubles me is his failing to leave analysis and orthodoxy alone. It is there that religion actually begins. Even so, if more 'religionists' could even go so far as he has suggested, wouldn't it be a more wonderful world?

It is a beautiful aspiration nevertheless. Thank you for sharing it. Why don't you and I continue to pursue it? ...Wakan Tanka yawaste' nici un he mani wakan ini`pila.....May the Great Spirit also bless you and guide you down the sacred path of peace....To`na Wanagi

[To`na Wanagi]

Nanette;
I'm curious; does he make mention in any of his writings about the four elments of the human condition, that is, body, mind, emotions, and spirit? I ask because I teach the philosphy of my people in the way of the Medicine Wheel showing the inter-connectedness of an ancient way that started around the time of Christ, the teachings of Jesus, and the priniples that we apply in a modern 12-step modality, as a means to enhancing our quality of life and overcoming adversities. In fact, it would seem we, he, you, and me, are all on the same wavelength when it comes to this subject.

"The Earth is too small a star and we too briefly a visitor upon it, for anything to matter than the struggle for peace." Colman McCarthy

I assume the name of his book is the same title as your topic post? I will find it and study what he writes since you have piqued my interest. Thank you....To`na Wanagi

[Nanette]

To`Na:

First, I would be very interested in your Medicine Wheel teachings. Do you have a website?

Yes, he dos mention the four elements of the human condition. In the book I quoted from, "Fragments of a Faith Forgotten", he is exploring the early Gnostic trends and teachings, which did indeed incorporate those four elements.

Mead was rather prolific and wrote on my spiritual subjects. His work on the Gnostics stood nearly alone for a century. He did not have the Nag Hammadi library available to him, so his work is limited to the known Gnostic writings at his time.

While I am personally drawn to the study of the early gnostics, I find that the Universal Truth has a thread through all types of spiritual practices.

Thank you for this very interesting exchange.

Nanette

Nanette;
I'm curious; does he make mention in any of his writings about the four elments of the human condition, that is, body, mind, emotions, and spirit? I ask because I teach the philosphy of my people in the way of the Medicine Wheel showing the inter-connectedness of an ancient way that started around the time of Christ, the teachings of Jesus, and the priniples that we apply in a modern 12-step modality, as a means to enhancing our quality of life and overcoming adversities. In fact, it would seem we, he, you, and me, are all on the same wavelength when it comes to this subject.

"The Earth is too small a star and we too briefly a visitor upon it, for anything to matter than the struggle for peace." Colman McCarthy

I assume the name of his book is the same title as your topic post? I will find it and study what he writes since you have piqued my interest. Thank you....To`na Wanagi

[DW Suiter]

From G.R.S. Mead "Fragments of a Faith Forgotten":

Supposing it possible that a man could love and revere all the great Teachers known to history as deeply and earnestly as each exclusive religionist reveres and loves his own particular Master; supposing that he could really believe in the truth of each of the great religions in as full measure, though without exclusiveness, as the orthodox of each great faith believes in the truth of his own revelation; supposing finally he could sense the Wisdom of Deity in active operation in all these manifestations,--what a glorious Religion would be his! How vast and strong his Faith when supported by the evidences of all the world-bibles and the exhortations of all the world-teachers! Persuaded of the fact of re-birth, he would feel himself a true citizen of the world and heir presumptive to all the treasures of the sacred books. Little would he care for the gibes of “eclectic” or “syncretist” flung at him by the analysers of externals and seekers after difference, for he would be bathing in the life-stream of Religion, and would gladly leave them to survey its bed and channels, and scrutinize the mud of its bottom and the soil of its banks’ least of all would he notice the cry of “heretic” hurled after him by some paddlers in a pool on the shore. Not however, that he would think little of analysis or less of orthodoxy, but his analysis would be from within as well as from without, and he would find his orthodoxy in the life of the stream and not in the shape of the banks.

I certainly speak against this way Mead perceives this matter. In this way, it is the way of man making his bed with fellow man; an abomination to God. For this is the giving and receiving of seed from man to man. In this way, God has no part. It is a way mankind has followed for many years and keeps mankind separated from God. It is the way of creating one's own mind by choosing what sounds right as presented by these religions and religious teachings. In this way, man is the creator of the mind and the spirit is the word from fellow man, not the Holy Spirit from God. And this is not the creation of God; not the mind and spirit God creates. Unless God is the creator of the mind and spirit, there is no salvation by God from this way of mankind reproducing; creating his own mind by his own works.

In the love of God,

DW Suiter